Spymarks, Not Watermarks

(brand.io)

65 points | by possibilistic 1 hour ago

9 comments

  • xp84 33 minutes ago
    These are going to be very popular for intercepting images on their way to a display. Think of the advertising possibilities. Ad attribution can be 'vastly improved' when both the ad and every step in the funnel are all spymarked and all of them are reliably reported on by virtue of their pixels hitting your screen.

    First the low-end laptops and phones (and probably later, most of them) will incorporate some low-level driver that is constantly scanning for these and passing them to a helper app to phone home. I assume this is something Apple will, to their credit, refuse to do[1] but I don't think other OEMs will have any qualms based on what they already do with their TVs.

    [1] (though they don't do this kind of thing out of altruism, but because their cash cow is app store rents and fat hardware margins, not third-party advertising.)

    • ifh-hn 16 minutes ago
      I don't think you can count apple out like that. They will likely implement it themselves though. This would be in addition to their always listening AI watch and intelligence features.
  • minimaxir 20 minutes ago
    Out of frustration with SynthID being closed-source with weird dubious ways to verify if an image has the watermark, I created an imperceptible tamper-resistent watermarking tool intended to be open-sourced, where the watermark can be decoded independently and steganographic aspects are impossible as the algorithm is transparent so nothing can be hidden. The intent is for non-corporations to use it as a defense against the use of spying/AI by making it easy for normal people to prove providence, but I have a feeling nowadays most are not going to see it that way so I am unsure if I will release it.
    • fn-mote 5 minutes ago
      If you just posted your link here with that comment, I’m sure you’d get a bunch of traffic.
  • pavo-etc 1 hour ago
    I'm not convinced spymark is better than just "invisible watermarks", spymark to my ears sounds designed to be sound very negative when invisible watermarks are not always negative, e.g. the counterfeit bank note example.

    Tech like SynthID I see a net positive especially since it doesn't degrade text quality. I dream about a browser extension running at all times that makes text more translucent based on the confidence of LLM writing[0].

    This article's suggestion of using it to unmask whistleblowers is very interesting and not something I'd thought about though. Still not convinced that spymark is a better name though.

    [0]: Sean Goedecke's Deckard is close but it would rather invisible than bright red https://www.seangoedecke.com/deckard/

    • autoexec 17 minutes ago
      > spymark to my ears sounds designed to be sound very negative when invisible watermarks are not always negative, e.g. the counterfeit bank note example.

      The article calls out watermarks intended to deter counterfeiting as explicitly being not spymarks. Watermarks can tell you about the items marked, not about the person using it.

    • pixl97 57 minutes ago
      These spy marks are a great way to teach AI how to create a hidden communication channel in plain sight.
    • lukewarm707 1 hour ago
      the spymark tracks you. it is negative.
    • rizonio 30 minutes ago
      "tracking watermark" seems clearer to me than "spymark"
    • shevy-java 42 minutes ago
      I think they are always negative. Including on bank notes.

      I wonder if we could have a real, open and direct democracy. All the models we have right now work via indirect clowns. Then again, looking at how some people vote, perhaps direct democracy can only work if people are clever.

  • layer8 1 hour ago
    Weirdly the article doesn’t mention steganography. Arguably it isn’t quite the same, because the aim of steganography isn’t typically to add an identification, but something like “steganomark” would seem to be fitting.
  • shevy-java 43 minutes ago
    > A watermark is a visible mark embedded in a physical or digital medium to verify authenticity or assert ownership.

    We also recently had this with LG spy-TVs. Cars here in the EU also spy on people, allegedly to show how alert they are. Perhaps they sneakily upload that information somewhere ... Facebook also has the spy-glasses now. People getting angry about Flock-spy-cameras.

    It seems we are now in the age of spying of everyone at all times. Future spying will be done via even smaller devices.

  • viccis 1 hour ago
    Watermarking has referred to this "spy" use case for quite some time. Digital items purchased for download often have them, for example. Even before the rise of digital downloads, screeners for movies had them.
  • silverFork 1 hour ago
    if it is specifically about pictures then wouldn't an analog copy clean it up? What about adding new spymark on top of it?

    If it is text, copying text alone and not the file will it not remove it? Massage the text with Ai and vola spymark gone, don't you think?

    • fn-mote 1 minute ago
      > copying text alone and not the file will it not remove it

      No. The mark is hidden in the word choices.

      See the demo in the article.

  • mirelahmd 1 hour ago
    There have been quite a few similar