Hey, Matthew Knight here. I'll add what I had to say in the Discord announcement:
> It is entirely valid for people to want to use LLMs for their projects and in their communities. It's also valid to want to keep them free of LLMs. Unfortunately those preferences are not compatible, one approach cannot coexist with the other. A choice needs to be made for MicroZig/ZEG projects. I've developed a preference for working without LLMs, and as I'm the most active maintainer of the project, shipping projects like the SYCL Badge, I'm imposing my preference.
> I have no hard feelings for anyone that decides to make an LLM fork of microzig.
I agree with what you've shared here, regarding personal choice etc. Can you say more about "No LLMs for finding bugs." What are some downsides that you've experienced or are protecting against?
I really appreciate the thoughtful message of "these two coding styles are simply incompatible, and as the lead maintainer I'm using the non-LLM style". No hate or hard feelings for those that prefer the alternative.
I really wish a lot more of this debate could show that level of respect for the other side.
"No LLMs for finding bugs." I really don't get rules such as these, plus they're not really enforceable. There's a difference between using the LLM to write the bug report and using the LLM to find the bug (if you suspect there is one) to then report after manual checking, in human words.
Go ahead, use all the LLMs in the world for finding bugs! It's not different than finding bugs by fuzzing, sitting with gdb, or receiving a revelation in your dream.
But then use your own brain to understand the bug, its implications, maybe ways to fix it. Again, use whatever tools, as long as your mind forms a clear understanding, which you can operate on independent on any LLMs or whatever.
The problem with "LLM bug reports" is that the submitters run a machine tool to find something that looks like a bug, but have a poor / no idea themselves what the issue is, and whether it's really an issue. It's easy to flood maintainers with such reports. The "no AI" policy pushes the responsibility of doing proper assessment onto you, the submitter.
If you can use LLMs to produce a bug report with the quality of assessment equal or above that of a diligent qualified human bug reporter, godspeed.
To me "no LLMs for finding bugs" means what it means, which implicitly means "we prefer to have bugs than for you to use a LLM". It is weird, may result in worse code, but it can be justified for ideological reasons, and I mean, why not, it is your project, your rules.
In the unlikely even I contribute one day, reading this rule, I will turn off my LLMs completely and my submissions will probably have bugs that could have been avoided using a LLM based debugging pass, but that's the rule, and I won't discuss it because it is also the rule.
If the intent is to avoid flooding maintainers with bug reports, say "no LLMs for bug reporting".
If an LLM finds a bug, is that almost the same as an LLM writing code for you? You can write lazy code as a sketch, for example without thinking about nested loops in your head, and then just use an LLM that will fix this loop in the bug report?
This can be viewed as a level of AI usage: 10% (for example), where vibe coding is 100%.
I think any percentage of usage affects your personal mental sharpness. We know that if something gained somewhere, something lost somewhere. The only question is where the "loss" is, and how it will affect everything and everyone.
> We know that if something gained somewhere, something lost somewhere.
Yeah, but that doesn't imply equivalent exchange.
If you care about being the best sprinter in the world, yeah, put in the time and effort! But if you just want to get to work, there's no way you can beat the speed of a car.
If you're one of the better bug-hunters in the world, you probably lose something by using an LLM. For the rest of us, it's increasingly like trying to race a car.
We definitely need both types - it's important having the humans who do have that top 1% understanding. But increasingly, for everyone else, LLMs outperform doing it by hand.
I suppose that's the split between "writing code" the action and "writing code" the overall development process. I do agree there is some nuance in thoughts here often lost by the term getting overloaded.
> We know that if something gained somewhere, something lost somewhere.
Plus some of the issues are clearly written with LLMs, and apparently there's an active contributor who has been using LLMs to translate comments and help with code - https://github.com/ZigEmbeddedGroup/microzig/pull/1087:
> Yeah we know you're working with an LLM. That is fine (imo), as long as you're not doing drive-by slop PRs. These have been rather good quality, and you've been testing on hardware (which is important)
So it feels odd for them to suddenly change from this (clearly working) setup.
My point is that it seems extremely strange to do that when they have developers who use LLMs already contribute to the project. I feel like they'll either alienate people who are interested, or just not care to enforce their no-LLM policy.
The productive ones will just fork and accelerate faster. I understand the need for the mental muscle, this framing just sounds terrible at this point. Something something human scrutiny is not even an option the people want to consider.
I don’t understand why people get so annoyed at policies like this. Zig seems to be a niche community that really embraces the people and craft of programming as opposed to being just another language.
To me, it’s akin to running a classic car club and not wanting drivers to turn up in their 2026 GT3 RS. They appreciate the building process and the thought and effort that went into it. At least, that’s my interpretation after attending some meetups/conferences.
There will probably be a time when it's impossible to determine if content came from an LLM or a human. We're currently in the, "It's been 'shopped, I can tell by the pixels" stage.
If an LLM finds a bug in some code, but you fail to report it because of a project's code of conduct regarding AI, does the bug even exist at all?
If you find a bug in some code, and use AI to help you find the fix, are you allowed to submit the fix? Or should you just let them "figure it out".
I'm sorry, but I can't take stances like this seriously. Policies like this are unhelpful. This reeks of the academic knee-jerk reaction of ban AI, without considering the reality that yes, students continue to use AI, even if you tell them not to. AI should be used responsibly. Ban the behaviour you don't want, don't ban the technology.
i think its probably asking people to not submit things they dont understand themselves.
if you want to submit an LLM found bug, you could instead donate the tokens directly to the maintainers, rather than making them read your agent outputs
There was someone on a previous thread about zig who reported a bug and was ignored, ostensibly because he used LLMs to confirm the accuracy of his bug report before submission. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49938732
> No LLMs for brainstorming and then sharing the results of that brainstorming, even if you create the prose.
I can understand the no automated AI contribution point of view, but going overboard with the above that is also completely unenforceable makes the policy look dumb.
Unenforceable - sure, but it's interesting and I see the logic. While LLMs are extremely useful, I find they homongenise things. Claude text is instantly identifiable and now all my co-workers presentations and docs sound like it. I'm sure that extra effort helps differentiate things (so many LLM generated sites look the same so not many people put in the effort).
A project without everyone putting the same filter between them and the work they submit might help a project evolve in interesting and different ways.
As of late 2026, this is gross negligence and any project with such a policy should be assumed to have a variety of easily exploitable vulnerabilities.
> It is entirely valid for people to want to use LLMs for their projects and in their communities. It's also valid to want to keep them free of LLMs. Unfortunately those preferences are not compatible, one approach cannot coexist with the other. A choice needs to be made for MicroZig/ZEG projects. I've developed a preference for working without LLMs, and as I'm the most active maintainer of the project, shipping projects like the SYCL Badge, I'm imposing my preference.
> I have no hard feelings for anyone that decides to make an LLM fork of microzig.
I really wish a lot more of this debate could show that level of respect for the other side.
But then use your own brain to understand the bug, its implications, maybe ways to fix it. Again, use whatever tools, as long as your mind forms a clear understanding, which you can operate on independent on any LLMs or whatever.
The problem with "LLM bug reports" is that the submitters run a machine tool to find something that looks like a bug, but have a poor / no idea themselves what the issue is, and whether it's really an issue. It's easy to flood maintainers with such reports. The "no AI" policy pushes the responsibility of doing proper assessment onto you, the submitter.
If you can use LLMs to produce a bug report with the quality of assessment equal or above that of a diligent qualified human bug reporter, godspeed.
To me "no LLMs for finding bugs" means what it means, which implicitly means "we prefer to have bugs than for you to use a LLM". It is weird, may result in worse code, but it can be justified for ideological reasons, and I mean, why not, it is your project, your rules.
In the unlikely even I contribute one day, reading this rule, I will turn off my LLMs completely and my submissions will probably have bugs that could have been avoided using a LLM based debugging pass, but that's the rule, and I won't discuss it because it is also the rule.
If the intent is to avoid flooding maintainers with bug reports, say "no LLMs for bug reporting".
that isn't what the policy says. It isn't just about writing the report.
> If you use a chatbot to give you advice on a comment on the issue tracker, that comment is unwelcome.
Yeah, but that doesn't imply equivalent exchange.
If you care about being the best sprinter in the world, yeah, put in the time and effort! But if you just want to get to work, there's no way you can beat the speed of a car.
If you're one of the better bug-hunters in the world, you probably lose something by using an LLM. For the rest of us, it's increasingly like trying to race a car.
We definitely need both types - it's important having the humans who do have that top 1% understanding. But increasingly, for everyone else, LLMs outperform doing it by hand.
> We know that if something gained somewhere, something lost somewhere.
I don't know that.
> Yeah we know you're working with an LLM. That is fine (imo), as long as you're not doing drive-by slop PRs. These have been rather good quality, and you've been testing on hardware (which is important)
So it feels odd for them to suddenly change from this (clearly working) setup.
Zig has had a similar policy for a while. Where are these myriad forks which accelerate faster, and the communities behind them?
To me, it’s akin to running a classic car club and not wanting drivers to turn up in their 2026 GT3 RS. They appreciate the building process and the thought and effort that went into it. At least, that’s my interpretation after attending some meetups/conferences.
Sources:
- https://github.com/mattnite
- https://github.com/mattnite/em-dash-counter
- https://mattnite.net
If an LLM finds a bug in some code, but you fail to report it because of a project's code of conduct regarding AI, does the bug even exist at all?
If you find a bug in some code, and use AI to help you find the fix, are you allowed to submit the fix? Or should you just let them "figure it out".
I'm sorry, but I can't take stances like this seriously. Policies like this are unhelpful. This reeks of the academic knee-jerk reaction of ban AI, without considering the reality that yes, students continue to use AI, even if you tell them not to. AI should be used responsibly. Ban the behaviour you don't want, don't ban the technology.
if you want to submit an LLM found bug, you could instead donate the tokens directly to the maintainers, rather than making them read your agent outputs
There was someone on a previous thread about zig who reported a bug and was ignored, ostensibly because he used LLMs to confirm the accuracy of his bug report before submission. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49938732
Indeed no hard feelings.
I can understand the no automated AI contribution point of view, but going overboard with the above that is also completely unenforceable makes the policy look dumb.
A project without everyone putting the same filter between them and the work they submit might help a project evolve in interesting and different ways.
As of late 2026, this is gross negligence and any project with such a policy should be assumed to have a variety of easily exploitable vulnerabilities.